The Thriving Christian Artist

Western Landscape Artist Paints God's Glory in the Sky: An Interview with Phil Bob Borman

• Matt Tommey: Artist, Best-Selling Author, Speaker, Entrepreneur and Artist Mentor

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In this inspiring episode of The Thriving Christian Artist Podcast, I sit down with my friend Phil Bob Borman—a premier Western artist celebrated for his breathtaking skyscapes and deep love for both art and the Lord. From his early days as a sculptor and cowboy to becoming one of the country’s most recognized Western painters, Phil Bob’s story is one of following God’s leading through unexpected transitions.

We talk about the unique aesthetic of Western art, the discipline required to master large-scale skyscapes, and how Phil Bob has seen God’s hand guiding his creative journey. His humility, humor, and heart for excellence make this conversation one that will inspire any artist to keep pursuing the work they’re called to create.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

  • How Phil Bob transitioned from sculpting to large-scale skyscape painting
  • The influence of Western culture and tradition on his work
  • Why following God’s direction can lead to unexpected creative success
  • Lessons from years of honing a distinctive style
  • Encouragement for artists navigating seasons of change

🌟 Favorite Quotes from This Episode:

“I was doing bronze sculpture in the traditional Western style before I ever thought about painting clouds.” — Phil Bob Borman
“Everybody I know that’s trying to paint clouds—just go look up Phil Bob Borman. He’ll give you something to dream toward.” — Matt Tommey

🌐 Connect with Phil Bob Borman: http://www.philbobbormanfineart.com

✅ Stay Connected & Grow as a Thriving Christian Artist:

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Speaker 1:

All of the world, artists are awakening. Painters and potters, writers and weavers, poets and dancers not chasing followers or fame, but sons and daughters called for such a time as this, transformed from the inside out, creating with purpose, releasing the glory of God and living in the power of the kingdom. Right now, this is the Thriving Christian Artist. Well, hey, friends, welcome again to the Thriving Christian Artist podcast. It's Matt Tomei, your host. Super glad that you are here. I am really excited today to have a friend of mine, Phil Bob Borman, who's not only an incredible musician and lover of Jesus and all the good stuff, he's one of the premier Western painters in the country and just an incredible, incredible artist, man of God and lover of creativity and all things. But, man, so glad you're here with me. Welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 2:

Well, thanks a bunch, Matt. I sure appreciate it. I'm glad to be here.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, absolutely. I guess you know we got to know each other a couple of years ago. Was it during COVID or right after that?

Speaker 2:

or uh, it was right, it was right after, and it was, uh, one of your, uh, I was taking your creative, you know, to throw your thriving you know, course, and everything, and and then we got to visit. I was on the hot seat and, yeah, you and I got to visit for 15 minutes and we have a mutual friend here.

Speaker 1:

Latimer, Close friend Latimer.

Speaker 2:

She is. She's a walking rainbow. She is so full of color and wonderful.

Speaker 1:

It's funny, looking back, I look at my podcast all the time to see which ones are the most popular. And her part, the podcast I did with her several years ago, is one of my top 10 podcasts and and that's saying that we're going to hit 2 million downloads this year. And so you, just, you know, latimer always talks about, you know, rubbing in with the Lord tells you something, just rubbing in, just tell her. Matt said just rub that in, right You're one of the guys that lived in her story.

Speaker 1:

you know, and let me go all over the place, but man, listen, as I've gotten to know just what you do and seeing your work and just seeing you know who you are and your wife and how y'all live, it's just you're just such an inspiration. And so for those maybe who don't know you and that maybe give us the thumbnail sketch of what you do creatively, where y'all are in the world, and then we'll kind of get into the backstory and what's going on nowadays okay, well, thank you.

Speaker 2:

Um, well, I, I paint full time. Uh, I paint primarily skyscapes. You can see one back over my shoulder. Yeah, uh and um, I see been painting for 40 well, actually been painting for 20 something years. Before that, I was a sculptor, mostly in the working cowboy genre, and then I laid out. For 10 years I was in full-time ministry. Once you're in, you're always in.

Speaker 1:

That's right, ain't help.

Speaker 2:

but right, that's right, and my wife and I Deanna, she's cool, she's my it crew and, uh, she just went in the other room. Uh, she's, uh, we, we are make a pretty great team and she does the business end of it. I went from sole proprietor to now I'm simply the painter and she's the administrator, which is awesome, and we live in Merkle, texas. Abilene is a suburb of Merkle. Just don't tell Abilene right, Just don't tell Abilene, it's just between us and 20 million people.

Speaker 1:

That's right, that's right. Well, you know, man, your skyscapes that you do, and the Texas sky, I mean, I don't know anybody that does it like you. In fact, we were at the gallery that represents you in Fredericksburg and just to be able to go up to those humongous pieces and see them and like, wow, this is incredible. In fact, everybody that I know that's trying to paint clouds, I'm like listen, just do yourself a favor. Go look this boy up on the internet, phil Bob Borman, and I said, said he's gonna, he's gonna give you something to dream toward, is something to look toward. But when you started painting, uh, I guess maybe let's start back you started as a sculptor, so were you doing bronze sculpture and that sort of thing, and in the traditional western style, or or?

Speaker 2:

I was I was um, when I was, I went to school at Sul Ross down in Alpine Texas and I was cow born for a living and my mentor was a sculptor and I always wanted to be a sculptor and a painter and I had several people that were my inspirations and I told them I wanted to do Western art. My teacher laughed at me and he said, well, if you think you can. And to me, no, is a not yet. Yeah, come on, come on, you know. And uh, so I was bringing him a, a brand new pencil drawing every week and he said, boy, you're drawing more. This is. And I was just in art appreciation class, yeah, and he said, you're drawing more than my other drawing students. And I said, well, I want this. And so you know, I'm like that duck If it don't rain, I'll walk. So I went to sculpting and did that full time for 15 years and really enjoyed it. I still enjoy it.

Speaker 1:

It's been so neat moving out here to Texas and just seeing what a different aesthetic there is in Western art versus art that we have back in the East and where I was at in Asheville and everything is such a different tradition and that sort of thing just the materials and the subject matter and that sort of thing. So how long were you cowboying and doing sculpting at the same time and then you kind of just went on into that full time, or how did that transition happen?

Speaker 2:

I've always been doing my artwork. The Lord had it to where, even in high school, I took art for four years. Just things worked out that way. Even since I was about four years old, I had one of them gold spine books. You know that kids have, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2:

The golden binding and I saw a little it was a porpoise or dolphin or something and I drew it and I went, I can do this. And then I was drawing on like windowsills and stuff like that. And you know, mom didn't like that, but uh, I've always wanted to. The two things I wanted to do in life I wanted to be an artist and, uh, when I was 14, I remember I came home one night from being a bus boy and I stayed up all night long drawing and I told best friend I said I'm going to be an artist one of these days. Wow, and I didn't know what that meant.

Speaker 2:

And, um, and since I was five, I wanted to be in ministry and uh, so the lord is, you know, it's kind of like a meandering river. You know it's northbound but it meanders south every once in a while. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you know what's life without a little salt? But that was so. When I got to college, I wanted to be an artist and really I didn't have anybody there at the university to teach me color and so, but I learned all you know. What do you call it? Oh, my gosh, not confirmation. You know my values and all that everything, all the basics.

Speaker 2:

And then it was several years later, after I had given up my artwork because it meant too much to me.

Speaker 1:

And.

Speaker 2:

I had a sculpture I was working on one night and it was just so good. And as I was working on it, I got a started getting a bellyache and I thought what's going on? Well, I called my pastor he's kind of like my big brother in Christ, you know and uh, and he's got two colors, black and white. And uh, and he was, uh, he's a rancher, and we were living on it. Uh, no, I wasn't living on his ranch at the time, but anyway, I called him and I said, hi, uh, I keep getting this. You know this, this feeling in me, you know. And I said what do you think it is? And he said probably the holy spirit won't to talk to you. And I said, said well, what should I do? And he said listen, click, quit doing what you're doing instead of having one.

Speaker 2:

And I said listen. And so what I did was I sat down and prayed and I said, oh, but Lord, look how I did this. I mean, it was a Phil Bob opus. You can't find it on iTunes, but uh, you know. Um, everything was just right on that sculpture. And and then I sat back and I went. Every one of those sentences started with personal pronoun I. And I said, lord, I don't want anything come between us. And and previous to that, I already told the Lord, and a friend of mine said I'll do anything God wants, so long as I don't have to give up my artwork.

Speaker 1:

Don't ever say that, because you know what's coming next.

Speaker 2:

Well, to his wisdom, my buddy didn't say a word because he could have jumped right on that and said well, now, but he, let me figure it out. And I gave my artwork up completely and it turned out being 10 years. But I told the Lord. I said I need you to take the fire out of my belly, my passion, and I would do a sculpture for museums or something like a commission from time to time. But I was out of the art business. I was in full-time ministry, loved it, love it. I was circuit preaching, doing all sorts of stuff. And then, when I was working with the ministry, I moved to Kerrville and I had been a pastor for the NMJRA, which is the New Mexico Junior Rodeo Association, and had my own ministry. And so, anyway, I was over here working with ministers from all over the world, counseling and stuff, and one day the Lord said start painting. I went okay.

Speaker 2:

And that was our conversation and I wouldn't touch it beforehand. And then he just started bringing opportunities and I said, well, lord, I don't never painted before other in college. A little bit, and he said, and he said that's alright. I said, well, I don't have a gallery.

Speaker 2:

He said I didn't ask you to, that's alright, too, told you to paint, yeah, and what was neat is I gave my first painting to him that I got in a gallery there in Fredericksburg and I said, lord, if this is from you, because I'd done the art thing for a while and the rhythms that come with that, and I was on a men's retreat and I said, if you sell this, I want to know that I'm going down the right path.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, sure Go back into artwork because I didn't give it up and it was at 2 o'clock and I was out outside of Menard, texas, with a bunch of men. Well, I got home that evening and the gallery owner called and said hey, phil, bob, just want to let you know. We sold that painting about two o'clock yesterday, or that, or that. I mean at the same time when I was praying and I went okay, all right, I'm in, I'm in, I'm all in.

Speaker 1:

Wow, wow, and it's just I'm thinking about my own story of how the Lord did this. I was a worship leader for a long time, came right out of college leading worship musician. That was kind of I felt like my identity. I was doing my basketry and all that just kind of as a fun thing on the side for Christmas money and just you know, messing around. I said some, some guys play golf, some go fishing. I made baskets. That was just my, my fun thing, but my music was my, my big deal. And when that came to an end for me in 2002, three right, and I guess 2003, I went in a totally different direction as well.

Speaker 1:

We'd gone through a big church split and all this mess that I've just kind of laid it down and really went through the next few years of just a real deep healing journey that the Lord had me on. And so when he started, when I felt like I'd gone through that and kind of was coming back to okay, I'm in a healthy place, leaders in my life are encouraging me to step back into my calling and this sort of thing I was thinking in my mind. You know, when God called me to raise up an army of artists in 2009, I thought it was going to be through musicians and worship and all this stuff that I had done. And the Lord was like no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He said we're going to actually do this through your baskets. And I'm like what? Like that I make any sense? Like I'm like like we like to tell the Lord like Lord, don't you know that nobody makes a living from making baskets? Don't you know that this doesn't make any sense? Don't you know that I've never sold a painting before? You know all of this?

Speaker 1:

And he's like yeah, I know, just move to Asheville and I'm going to take it from here, and it's the same thing. It's like God just began to confirm and confirm and confirm and it's I just think it's so beautiful and I hear this all the time in interviews and you're just, you know, bringing this up again that I think so many times God gives us this gift but then he, he, wants us and many times walks us through situations that require us to give it back to him in order, so that he can bring it back to us in a way that we don't have our tentacles of control in it and we know that it's him. And I don't know about you, but being doing the things that I'm doing now, it comes with so much more joy and so much more freedom, because, you know, I'm not forcing this. I'm just trying to respond to what the Lord's doing in my life and it's a lot more fun to watch him create the momentum, if you will, than me trying to sit over here do it all myself.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah, and it takes all the pressure off when I know that I'm doing this adventure, this grand adventure called art and being a creative. You know if there's in the lean times, you know of the rhythms and stuff. I'm not the provider, he is, and so you know if he's in charge of marketing. We're good, it's so good he's in charge of the inspiration.

Speaker 1:

He's in charge of me making it. He's in charge of the distribution. He's in charge of the profit. He's in charge of the marketing. He's in charge of the profit. He's in charge of the market. He's in charge of everything. The issue is, can we get that in our head and just learn to cooperate with him. Right, and I love what you're saying Trust the rhythms. That's a beautiful way to say that.

Speaker 2:

That's it. And I've been doing this for 40 years and off and on different things for 40 years and off and on different things, and I can't tell you how many times, up until maybe a couple of weeks ago, somebody come up and say what do you do for a living? What do you? You know, I mean, what do you do for a living?

Speaker 1:

Yeah right, Because it obviously can't be this, right, right, your life doesn't work.

Speaker 2:

And I smile and go on. And you know what was it? I always say somebody else's lack of vision doesn't make me blind. Come on, come on, and that's you know, I had a similar deal in ministry. I was worship leader for many years and that was my identity as well. And still I would go. When I would go to a little church or join a fellowship somewhere and they needed somebody in worship, and I said, well, lord, I can do this. And he said I know, lord, I can do this. And he said I know we're good, are you listening? And he said, no, I want you somewhere else. I know you can, but it's not about your can, it's I need you to be where I need you because we've had that. You can and you do, but I don't want you in that faculty or that position at this time because that's not your identity.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know being my son as a priest and a king. He said that's your identity. Yeah, and I want people to know when you follow me, in spite of the normals that are out there, you're giving permission for other folks to be fully them. Yeah, and so when I recognize as as he is, then I'm a fully filled bob yeah, I love it.

Speaker 1:

I love it. I think it's so beautiful and this you know from. I guess I'm a slow learner, but it takes a while to learn that. You know we're not what we do. You know our identities in christ especially, we talk about that. Our heart can get attached to the things that that we're we are created for, we, and god has designed us to do these things. But our heart gets attached to them and we think that we are what we do.

Speaker 1:

And it took me a long time to realize that, man, whether I'm selling my art or making my art, or whether I'm speaking to somebody, or whether I'm at the grocery store encouraging somebody, or like right now, I'm leading a life group at our church and I'm just loving it, all of that's the kingdom and I'm just God's steward and he gets to point me in whatever direction he wants to do and turn on whatever part of me that he needs at that time. Man, if you can just get that in your heart for all of us, it really does. Let you live with a lot more grace and a lot more, I don't know. Just rest in him that this is his story and he's going to use me in the way that he wants to, and the quicker that I will learn to submit to that and cooperate with him, the easier it's going to be on both of us.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, it's like, you know, it's a point of agreeing with him. Yeah, you know when a good hand is somebody who helps where it's needed, not where they want to. You know, but, lord, I want to help you here. I know I got somebody there. I need you to help me over there. Yeah, but you know, but that's not sexy.

Speaker 1:

Nobody knows about that one Lord.

Speaker 2:

Exactly and like what you're saying, matt. It is so important, especially about as a creative. It's one of those deals where we can't not.

Speaker 1:

It's going to come out somewhere right, it is.

Speaker 2:

And even during that 10 years, which, like I said, I'd planned on it being for the rest of my life Um, I built a porch. It was 1500 square feet, three levels, had a trap door for the kids and a rock wall and all that stuff. And and, uh, so you, I can't not create. And that's really the definition of an artist. It's not if you make a living or you've done this or been in that, it's you can't not. And I have never met so many courageous people as those that walk in the creative, because that is the family business Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

That's what our dad does for a living, come on. But we've never been there before. And that's what takes so much courage is every time I start a painting. I've never been there before and I had a mentor of mine. I was at a workshop and I said, oh, you think we're painting outside? And I said you fixing to do another masterpiece? And he said well, I don't know, I've never done this painting before.

Speaker 1:

You had to be determined.

Speaker 2:

I was like I thought, if you just you know, once you're there, that you just pick up a brush and stuff happens and everybody loves you and wants to buy your work. And it's not that way. Every day is from scratch and it's a day of complete trust. And I just finished with a workshop at the Museum of Western Art down in Kerrville and I was telling my class. I said, you know, to trust what God has given you is the most important thing. You know, like to grab the hind end of a brush and stand back there and just do the whole flow back and forth. And it's when we paint with our fingers that we're trying to control and contrive and and whatever. When I trust and have fun, that's going to come out in my paintings, whatever my intent is, that's coming out.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's a great transition because I was just, you know you are obviously, you know an incredible lover of Jesus walking in the kingdom and everything God's created you to do. I know, you know, believe in the full gifts of the spirit on display and everything that you do so and yet at the same time, you are fully in the what some might call the secular art world and doing you know what God's called you to do there. I'd love to get your perspective on this, because one of the things I see the enemy really get as a hang up in a lot of artists who love Jesus and want to pursue their art is that they feel this it's almost like this religiosity that comes on that says, well, I've got to do it, it's got to have doves and crosses and all this kind of stuff, it's got to be overt biblical imagery, it's got to be have a scripture verse on it or something like that, or at least have a biblical theme.

Speaker 1:

And I just love it when an artist like you, you know, comes on the scene and and guys go to Phil Bob's website and we'll share that in a little bit what it is but your work like oozes the glory of God and yet there's nothing about, you know, phil Borman, prophetic artists, christian artists, that sort of thing. So talk about that, that tension for you, that balance for you know, phil Borman, prophetic artist, christian artist, that sort of thing. So talk about that tension for you, that balance for you of how you walk fully as somebody that's walking in the kingdom and yet God's also giving you so much grace and favor in the quote, unquote secular art world to do what you do without all the Christian Christianese baggage, if you will.

Speaker 2:

Right, with all the iconography and and stuff like that that comes with it. Well, I asked him that and, um, you know, because, uh, you know, this artwork it's a, it's a luxury, or you know, in the realm that I'm in, and and he said you are prophesying my glory, you know.

Speaker 2:

And it goes right back to my intent. Your intent will always be seen. If I paint to sell, then all I'm going to get out of it is transactions. And he is not interested in a transactional Phil Bob. I'm not vying for his attention.

Speaker 2:

Me being fulfilled, and he already put in my, my heart, I want to, I want you to paint clouds. And years before I went into painting and it was like a memory of going oh, I want to paint clouds, yeah, and it's my passion. Uh, me being the fullest, me is the present to everybody around me. You know that's. And you being the fullest, you and all of your facets, what the enemy wants us to do is to stop at one facet and make it a mask. So it's our identity. And but no, you know, fulfilled mats or fulfilled fill bobs are multifaceted. We shine like jewels and in fact, talk about prophetic art. I have done a couple of paintings that have doves or crown or whatever on there, and it was what the Lord showed me when I was over at Latimer's studio and we had a gathering one night, and walking into her studio it was like walking inside of a shofar.

Speaker 2:

Right you know, if you don't see Jesus, you weren't there.

Speaker 1:

That's right, you weren't looking.

Speaker 2:

And I asked the Lord. I said Lord. I said don't you? I don't see bubbles, I don't see birds, I don't see the crosses in the sky or anything, and I mean there's times when I do, but as far as my artwork, I don't see that. And he said hon, he calls me hon.

Speaker 2:

And he said hon, he calls me hon. He said you are glorifying me with each and every painting that you do and it's your intent and I always, ever since I started it's painting one sky at a time, showing God's glory one sky at a time. And there is no mundane with him. That's right, and so it's like because my intent will be seen. And you just made my day when you said it just oozes God's glory. And I have been in a gallery where, as an artist, you're anonymous. People know your work but they don't know. And I'm standing right next to somebody and I heard somebody say oh, I just see God's glory. Oh, if I had a tail, I'd have wagged it.

Speaker 2:

You know, I was Nothing better, right Nothing better, nothing better, but it's not religious, and see, he's so far beyond that. He's not religious and see, he's so far beyond that. Yeah, he's not threatened, he is. You know, I think about the, the story we call the prodigal son, but it's more about the father. That's right and and whether we go and live the wildlife, been there, done that, got drawer full of t-shirts and or uber religious, he has grace and love for both. Yeah, I know, like I know, I know, but come here. He said, just come to me, you're welcome at the party. So, anyway, for other artists, I just want to say what's in your heart is exactly what we need to see.

Speaker 2:

The rest of the world and what's in your heart. That is something Like, matt, we just talked about, you know, between the two of us, but this is for anybody. Your baskets are the key to somebody's permission, somebody's release. Yeah come on, and you know, and there's, you know, as you've probably heard, a thousand million, big in times. You know, basket weaving, exactly.

Speaker 1:

No, that's how or somebody said I'm glad somebody finally found something to do with kudzu. I said I need to start taking up a nickel for every time somebody says that yeah, you know and uh, you know.

Speaker 2:

I always tell people, like you know, this is cool that I make a living painting humidity. You know I love it. So how is that the thing is? It's from my heart, and Lord told me. He said every time somebody looks at one of your paintings, it's prophesying.

Speaker 2:

Because my intent is being seen. It's like when you go to a museum and you step in front of something you know, an exhibit, and you you have your cell phone or speakers and it starts talking about that exhibit, right. Every time somebody stands in front of your painting or your, your baskets or whatever it is a drawing, drawing, sculpture, it is prophesying, declaring your intent, and so it's, you know, and that's really our identity is. Our identity is not based on our transactions. You know, his grace is not a wage, his blessings are not a wage so it's a gift and that's that's for us to know.

Speaker 2:

I don't have to earn it, yeah, you know. And my boys, when they're growing up, they say, daddy, are you so, oh, so proud of me? And I said hon, I said I love to watch you sleep when you're not doing anything. It's knowing you're breathing blessed. Yeah, yeah and and so that's so good.

Speaker 1:

I think. So many times we settle for transactions and god's trying to get us to lean into transformation, right, I mean? Amen, yes, you know absolutely. He wants to change us in the process and and and make us trust him in the mystery of. We don't know what we're creating or what he's going to use it for. But even in spite of us or our not understanding, he takes that piece and uses it for his glory. And you keep talking about you know being the fullest you I just keep hearing that quote of St Irenaeus you know the glory of God?

Speaker 1:

Is man fully alive, and that's what Jesus died for is that we'd be fully alive, fully restored to the kingdom, fully alive in him to walk in everything that they designed us for. And I just think, wow, that's what this life is about, not painting this specifically or that specifically. It's like God cares much more that we create than what we create, as long as we're just inviting him into the process. Yes, and it's really interesting that genres for painting than what we create, as long as we're just inviting them into the process.

Speaker 2:

You know, yes, and that's you know it's. It's really interesting that um genres for painting or different kinds of artwork, it was established after the fact. Creativity is brand new. By definition, it has no genre because it hadn't been completed yet in the process. And you know, I think about and you've probably talked about this before, I'm sure about Bezalel. Yeah, I know you have. Yeah, I know you have. I've listened to your deal. I was like, oh, yeah, you know that he was anointed with all this creativity, but that's so.

Speaker 2:

We don't fit into a genre, we're never made to fit. And I would say probably one of the greatest lies out there is homogenization, being the same or emulating for a definition, because like, okay, matt is a success, so I want to be just like Matt, so I can be a success. Well, that's not true Matt's Matt, you know, for being a complete success, I need to be me to be a complete success and trust that I'm enough and, in fact, even more than that, trust that I am a blessing to all around. And you know it's faith every day. Because we you know the vain imaginations that talks about scripture we never imaginate up, we always imaginate down. We don't spiral up and say, well, I'm just to this, or he does that.

Speaker 2:

That's not true. You know, as you know, you go to an art show and the trials and the hard things that we go through everybody goes through right, you know the, the pressures and and we encourage one another and it's encouraging to see that other people have survived. But, um, you know, I would say to everyone follow your bliss. My wife, uh deanna, uh told, told her kids that you know, follow your bliss, follow your bliss. And that's another way of saying is follow your peace. Where is the lord leading? And, like said, he's already given it to you.

Speaker 2:

He gave you the inspiration. So when something comes out on the canvas or I'm writing a song or something, that's the second time it's been mentioned. The first time was To you right, to me, yes, and you know, because he put it that deep down in there, oh good. And then when I trust him enough to let it out, and so that's why I say, watching somebody, it doesn't matter the skill level you know, we were talking about earlier today is that pursuit of excellence is excellence.

Speaker 2:

That is, and artistic integrity or the pursuit of integrity is integrity.

Speaker 1:

Right, you know, it's always growing, it's always maturing, right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly, and you know, I always say that you can see further than you can throw, so your vision will always out-distance your ability to get there. By the time you get there, you can see further. That's right. And so that means I've got room to grow every day. And in competition, I've had people say, or ask is it competitive in a gallery when there's 60, some odd artists from all over the world? And the answer is no, right, because we say something different and so we have room to encourage everybody. And so there's, you know, I was as I was getting, you know, really into the clouds subject matter, you know, and this was my passion. And I was looking at an artist who passed about 10 years ago, wilson Hurley, and he was the cloud guy. And then there's another gentleman is it Paul Nisbet? Out of Santa Fe, and I looked online at their work and I went, oh my goodness, how could I ever paint a cloud?

Speaker 1:

right, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2:

What was I thinking? I'm going to, you know, shake the dust off my blue vest and go back to being a greeter at. Walmart, you know. But after I was dejected for a few days and this is all inside of me, right, right and then I went back and I studied some more and I was looking at their books and I went wait a minute, they're saying something completely different.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

There is no similarity and you know it's like, uh, in Western art art, if you see a guy riding a bronc. Well, how many people have done that right? Everybody it's still doing it, but every one of them's different, and so that's what's so wonderful. This is, I would say, this is the diversity, uh, uh. Training that we need is to trust the Lord and being ourselves, and not following behind someone. We can learn from them, but not following.

Speaker 1:

That's so good. Well, man, listen, what a joy to be with you today and just get to hear more of what makes you tick and what the Lord is doing in your life. I know that folks are going to want to connect with you on your website and social media and all that kind of thing. Find out any other classes or shows that you're doing, so where can they connect with you? What's your website? Any socials that you want to share? And then just any final encouragement for everybody on the show today Okay, well it's, my website is philbobbormanfineartcom.

Speaker 2:

Isn't that right? My love, okay.

Speaker 1:

What's the name again?

Speaker 2:

That's right, I spelled it right. I'm good, all right, and that's our website and you can hook up through our email and stuff there. And then we have an Instagram page and it's PhilBobBormanArt, and then also Facebook and that's PhilBobBorman art and then also Facebook and that's Phil Bob Borman art. I'm looking at Deanna and she's giving me thumbs up.

Speaker 2:

She is the that. You know. If somebody said, phil Bob, I'll give you a million dollars to get on Facebook tomorrow, I'd have to go back to work because I don't even know how to get on it. But that's how you can get a hold of me, you know, uh, and just email us through those, or message through Facebook or Instagram.

Speaker 1:

Awesome, Awesome, Well, man, listen, what a joy. And, uh, I might have to ride over there to Abilene and and uh, or tell me the little town again, not Abilene, but right.

Speaker 1:

It's, it's Merkel I might ride out to Merkel one day. We're gonna have to have lunch and and have lunch and just have a longer conversation because I just I love what God's doing in your life and what he's pouring through you and I know it's been an inspiration to everybody listening today. So thanks so much for being on the show today Very well, thanks.

Speaker 2:

Thanks a bunch, matt.

Speaker 1:

Hey, my friend, before you go, make sure that you're signed up for the Thriving Christian Artists Weekly. It's my free newsletter, full of spiritual encouragement, creative inspiration and practical tips to help you thrive in everything that God's called you to do as an artist in his kingdom. Every issue is absolutely free and it includes the latest podcast episode, featured artist spotlights, a worship song of the week and, again, tons of tips and encouragement and inspiration for you to keep you inspired and encouraged in everything that God's got for you as an artist in the kingdom. You can click the link right here in the show notes to join us, and it's a great way to stay connected. All right, love you Bye.